Talk:Thue

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How exactly is Thue self-modifying? It can't change it's own rewriting rules. --Chris Pressey 23:07, 5 Jun 2005 (GMT)

OK. I'm not really familiar with Thue. I just saw that it replaces it's own rules, and thought of that as self-modification. I'll remove the category. --Rune 23:17, 5 Jun 2005 (GMT)

[edit] Pronunciation

Regarding pronounciation: If it is correct that it is named after a norwegian, I (as a norwegian myself) find the "TOO-ay" pronounciation strange. Normal norwegian pronouciation of Thue is more like "TOO-eh" or "TOO". --Rune 23:17, 5 Jun 2005 (GMT)

What's the difference between "TOO-ay" and "TOO-eh"? With British pronunciation they'd be the same - much as we pronounce 'hay' and 'heh' (and also 'hey') identically. Is 'eh' meant to represent a shorter sound (like an aspirated schwa)? --Safalra 10:48, 23 Oct 2005 (GMT)

I'm pretty sure Thue (the name) is /tʉɛ/ using IPA. --BodyTag 11:47, 23 Oct 2005 (GMT)

Ah, thanks. Now I see how ɛ could be transcribed as 'eh' - the slang word 'meh' is pronounced /mɛ/. --Safalra 20:09, 23 Oct 2005 (GMT)

But it still seems more natural to transcribe /ɛ/ as 'e' - 'eh' to me would suggest an elongated version, more like how I've heard "meh" pronounced. -- Smjg 18:00, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

You pronounce 'hay', 'hey' and 'heh' indentically? Didn't know that. I guess 'TOO-eh' is not a good way to describe it then. I guess the "-eh" would be approximately the way you pronounce the vowel in "when". --Rune 16:03, 23 Oct 2005 (GMT)

Your explanation makes perfect sense to this American English speaker. --Graue 16:55, 23 Oct 2005 (GMT)

Hmm... well, I wouldn't ever doubt a native speaker about pronounciation. But I would also interpret the wording in the language description as making it explicit that the name of the language is to be pronounced "TOO-ay". Which may be strange and inconsistent, but hey, this is esoteric programming; it certainly wouldn't be the first time... --Chris Pressey 15:17, 8 Jun 2005 (GMT)

Funny - when I was reading this, I thought that the best way to describe the pronunciation would be "as if one were in the process of spitting, loudly". :-) 71.255.111.251 21:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thue and Markov algorithms

Isn't Thue equivalent Markov algorithms, if we ignore I/O and remove the non-determinism by insisting that only one rule applies at any one time? In which case, this seems a simpler way of proving Turing-completeness that the arguement in the article. --Safalra 19:02, 22 Oct 2005 (GMT)

Hmmm, but how can one just remove the non-determinism from Thue? It's an important part of the language. I don't know about these proving things, but you could at least emulate the Turing-complete Markov algorithms in Thue and prove Thue Turing-complete that way (although it's not gonna be easy). --User:Keymaker

Have some kind of marker that moves through the program from the left. When one of the Markov rules applies, it turns into another marker that moves back to the beginning, otherwise it carries on. Note that this will result in a huge number of rules, as the rules for 'carrying on' mustn't apply when one of the Markov rules applies. Imagine a Markov algorithm with just one rule:

A -> B

This could be translated into Thue in the following way:

>A::=<B
>B::=B>
>C::=C>
>D::=D>
and so on
|<::=|>
B<::=<B
C<::=<C
D<::=<D
and so on
::=
|>string to which to apply Markov algorithm

Here > is a rightwards-heading marker and < is the leftwards heading marker. The two cases of 'and so on' should be replaced with extra rules for all the other characters. This becomes much more complicated as the Markov algorithm becomes more complicated, but as far as I can see it generalises perfectly. --Safalra 13:30, 23 Oct 2005 (GMT)

Thue seems identical to Lindenmayer Systems (L-Systems) to me. I've looked over all three - semi-thue, markov, and L. L-Systems allow for stochastic (non-deterministic) replacement using multiple right-hand side rules. Wildhalcyon 18:06, 10 Jun 2006 (UTC)